Kicked Off the Methownet BB

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Re: Kicked Off the BB

Post by mister_coffee »

Fun CH wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:50 pm
PAL wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:07 pm Laurie Jones Ok County Health Director and others received death threats via emails and phone calls. This was posted on FB quite some time ago.
No not on the BB.
yes that has been common all around the country. However there is no logic in lumping in methownet BB antivaxxers with those commuting those crimes. (that was the point. Not where that threat was posted)

Nor is there any logic as David suggests that the MNBB antivaxxers need to rethink there postion because others who may or may not share a similar political POV have committed thoses death threat crimes. Exactly how are all antivaxxers responsible for the illegal actions of others?

...
Like you said, those death threats to public health officials have been common all across the country.

So have death threats against officials administering elections, including volunteers who are just trying to do a job out of a sense of patriotism and have no ideological dog in the fight. Also it seems there were multiple accounts of people shooting others who asked them to wear a mask.

So there is a pretty consistent pattern on the right of tolerating violence and advocacy for violence. Which is antithetical to our ideals of more or less peaceful political competition.

The fact that officials of one political party seem to wink and nod at these activities and not take them seriously is a clear example of a moral rot in that part of the ideological spectrum. The fact that elected officials saw the need to pass laws making it legal to run over people protesting in the streets is another example.

This pattern continues with describing the 1/6 insurrectionist terrorists as "tourists" and "patriots" and attempting to rewrite history and make that insanity normal.

The point is that if you share that ideology and openly advocate for it you are enabling those violent crazy people by convincing them that they have support and their cause is "legitimate". If you don't loudly and clearly denounce such behavior you are only encouraging it. In the case of Laurie Jones, we got crickets from both the County Sheriff and County Commissioners -- I'd expect at least a "don't make death threats against government employees", and how hard would that be anyway?

Outside of the short term, and probably only if they manage to "win" the civil war they seem so determined to start, it is hard to see how violent threats, advocacy for violence, and acts of violence will manage to do anything but alienate people to their cause and point of view. Bluntly speaking it is a position and choice you'd only make if you think you are losing. So if you do strongly hold those political views you should be even more loudly denouncing those violent kooks, as they are making the changes you advocate far less likely and probably impossible.

I just don't buy the "we're not like the violent terrorists, but we believe the same things." Whether it comes from Republicans in 2021, or from Sinn Fein about the IRA, or from the Islamic Brotherhood about ISIS or Al-Qaeda. And yes, I do think the Republican Party has cast itself into exactly the same moral pit.

In point of contrast, when the BLM protests got out of hand (and they did get out of hand) many leaders in the Democratic Party loudly and openly and unambiguously denounced the violence and destruction of property. And rightly so. So there isn't really a "both sides do it" argument here. As if it would be any morally less foul if there was another side doing it.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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One of the persons threatening Laurie, did not like them contact tracing her and her family. This was on FB. The woman didn't indicate if she didn't believe in the vaccine. Right, we don't know entirely if it is anti vaxxers committing the crime.
Ok, you brought up South Cr. You may have seen on the other BB that I said that the owner was upset that people had disrespected his property, so I don't blame him for keeping out people that vandalized his signs and perhaps littered. As I said Louis Lk. was a pit.
But in the same vein the owner thought it was ok to cut out an old logging road and he was stopped by the FS. That is the public's land.
He should not have done that. So he did not respect the FS or us.
For verification about it being the road, call Rosemary Sigfried at the FS.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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PAL wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:07 pm Laurie Jones Ok County Health Director and others received death threats via emails and phone calls. This was posted on FB quite some time ago.
No not on the BB.
yes that has been common all around the country. However there is no logic in lumping in methownet BB antivaxxers with those commuting those crimes. (that was the point. Not where that threat was posted)

Nor is there any logic as David suggests that the MNBB antivaxxers need to rethink there postion because others who may or may not share a simular political POV have committed thoses death threat crimes. Exactly how are all antivaxxers responsible for the illegal actions of others?



The fact is that people now have the right not to receive a covid vaccine. That is currently the legal situation (fact) whether you or I like it or not.

Here is another situation where many of those on the left slanted MN BB cannot bring themselves to accept or respect other community members rights (South creek being another example) and then desire to publically call them out.


@David, I could not find those two posts on the MNBB where you were talking about the unvaccinated dying. Did I miss those, did you delete them or were they removed by BB staff?

Anyway glad you clarified your comments on this because to me it came across as what I had previously stated.

FWIW, Help can be as simple as first doing no harm by staying clear of using divisive rhetoric.

Perhaps consider this quote:

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-JFK
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Laurie Jones Ok County Health Director and others received death threats via emails and phone calls. This was posted on FB quite some time ago.
No not on the BB.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Fun CH wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:11 am
...

if that is the case then perhaps those folks, as members of our community, need our help and not our ire.

The fact remains that at this moment, covid vaccines are not required and therefore it is their right not to be vaccinated.

Wasn't it you that was hoping for their death from Covid to solve your desire?

That is a radical position.

I doubt anyone on the BB is threatening Public Health officials. Lumping them in with criminals is also a radical position designed only to support your position.
I don't know about "help" versus "ire." From my standpoint the situation is analogous to having a friend or family member that decides to invest their life savings in a fur-bearing trout farm, or a jackalope ranch, or in mining dogecoin. Most reasonable people would tell that friend or family member that they were out of their minds. In some ways I think we have made the mistake of going too easy on anti-vaxxers and people who have fallen down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, and because of that we have infantilized them rather than treat them as rational and responsible adults. The results have been as predictable as they are unfortunate.

To be clear, I don't want to see anybody die. In fact one reason I am so furious is that the deaths now are so unnecessary. The truth is that my compassion for someone who sickens and dies after refusing life-saving medicine (which the vaccine is) is going to be tiny. And if someone who refuses the vaccine causes someone else to sicken and die, my compassion for them is tiny squared. And if people are free to make bad choices, they should also one hundred percent own them -- to me that means they should also refuse any health care which might be required by their choice of refusing the vaccine (I'd make a reasonable exception for people who have valid medical reasons not to take a vaccine, and there are quite a few such people).

At least for myself, if I find that people who share my beliefs are committing serious crimes in the name of those beliefs, that is a damned good sign I should reexamine said beliefs. It is kind of shocking that other supposedly reasonable people would not think so.

If being a reasonable adult who is exasperated and at wits end with other adults who are not at all reasonable is radical, I guess I am.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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mister_coffee wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:30 am
...
I have no interest in "getting along" with people who advocate for utter nihilistic insanity, throw public temper tantrums about wearing masks, and who make anonymous death threats to public health officials. And this isn't a "both sides" thing. One "side" has clearly lost touch with reality here and the other has not.
if that is the case then perhaps those folks, as members of our community, need our help and not our ire.

The fact remains that at this moment, covid vaccines are not required and therefore it is their right not to be vaccinated.

Wasn't it you that was hoping for their death from Covid to solve your desire?

That is a radical position.

I doubt anyone on the BB is threatening Public Health officials. Lumping them in with criminals is also a radical position designed only to support your position.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Pearl, AFAIK I have not been kicked off the other board. At the same time honesty compels me to admit that for every post I've made on the COVID and vaccination threads on that board, I've canceled another two that just weren't likely to be constructive.

It is really a sad and crazy time in our lives when we are confronted with a deadly disease and we need to argue with people about preventing needless death. It doesn't bear thinking about what might have happened if this disease had a five or ten percent (or even higher) fatality rate, like its close relatives SARS and MERS.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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David, I hope you did not get kicked off the other BB. If you have, then I should have too. But agree with what you say, especially with this little Covid surge in Twisp and possibly the Valley now, going on. Thanks.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Fun CH wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:30 pm ... Many threads that serve no purpose other than to further divide a community, drifting in and out of political agendas from both the radical left and radical right.

...

Please try to get along.
I suppose I am one of the persons that is aimed at.

From my perspective, advocating that people take a safe and effective vaccine, and being opposed to vicious disinformation about the same, is not "radical left". It is just being a sane and functional adult.

If you had a friend, family member, or neighbor who was making choices that actively harmed themselves, their family, and their community would you say nothing and just let the harm continue? Seriously? Maybe that is "divisive" but maybe it is also standing up and doing right by people who you don't want to see sicken or die.

I have no interest in "getting along" with people who advocate for utter nihilistic insanity, throw public temper tantrums about wearing masks, and who make anonymous death threats to public health officials. And this isn't a "both sides" thing. One "side" has clearly lost touch with reality here and the other has not.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Sad to see what's going on at the Methow.net BB right now. Many threads that serve no purpose other than to further divide a community, drifting in and out of political agendas from both the radical left and radical right.

"Clowns to the left of me jokers to the right, here I am Stuck In The Middle With You".

Please try to get along.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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buy/sell added
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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alfrandell wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:12 pm Ray cursed at me in writing, and showed me what he is like.
I had some other people review this site, and they found it lacking in quality.
Conspiracy theories and tough talk.

would you rather be able to tell your truth without it being censored like what was going on at the methownet BB or be able to speak freely here.

If someone wants to buy into fantasy conspiracy theories, that's their business (right) and we are free not read anything written on the internet.

Your friends that said there was no quality here obviously didn't see the picture of that 15 pound rainbow.

I do suggest a 'for sale' section here because not everyone is able to post on the other BB.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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As I said in the other thread...

Alf, Never said I would shoot him... But I would certainly have drawn my weapon and told him to stand down... You overreact a lot to anything that counters what you say... It has to go both ways to be fair...

And this is a board of free expression and opinions... nobody banned... no topics that "disappear" during the night... just because opinions don't agree with yours, that is the way the world works with free expression of thoughts...

Cheers

Ray
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Alf, You should note that Ray did not remove your posts, he did not censor you and I believe you left thIs board voluntarily, correct? You where allowed to express your opinion in your own style and understanding.

Talking like you did to an admin will get you instantly banned and your posts removed by many web forum site owners if there is a commercial or political agenda involved.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Quote"in light of your insistance that outdoor skiers mask for the entire time on the trail, "

That is not exactly true. I never said that. That thread was to bring about awareness of the need to wear masks while in close proximity to others while passing and in the parking lot. That was not happening. I purposely created drama because it gets the most attention, comments and therefore awareness.

But I don't think that is totally the reason I got kicked off of the BB. It happened when we were discussing taxing locals to create a recreational district.

I was also very vocal in expressing my concern about public land issues. My very first post about the then proposed Silver star snow park was removed and I was accused of slander. I continued posting on that subject also.

I speculate I was interfering with a political or commercial agenda.

Being canceled from a BB that bills itself as a Valley Journal, that the owners admittedly don't moderate or even read, is a badge of honor to me to expose such things.

Alf,thanks for this;

Quote; "your comments are really interesting, and you clearly follow your heart."

Yes, I am passionate about public land issues and the privileged government/private cooperate partnerships that form that are turning our wilderness quality mountains into Disney land theme parks complete with helicopter rides.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Thanks Ray, I was going to ask you to move the thread when I saw where it landed however I couldn't figure out how to use the personal message system yet.

I agree, in a small Community like ours, people should not be permanently banned for expressing opinions that behind the scenes folks don't like.

Before political posts were no longer allowed, I remember we were having a good and civil conversation about a Gun Sanctuary City status for Twisp

The BB quickly removed that thread and when it was reposted, the poster was banned.

After political posts were no longer acceptable, they continued including one very contentious thread by Bob Hunt seemly once again promoting the formation of a Recreational District.

Was he banned for violating that no politics policy? I doubt it.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

Post by admin »

Sorry to here you got banned... Never a good thing...

BTW, I will move this topic over to the MV General sub-forum to keep topics organized in a few days...

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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Thanks David. I am very curious who instigated this very clear display of "cancel culture".

As they say, follow the money and I'd add power. That has me wondering if being vocal on the Recreation District and or the snowpark had something to do with it.

I forgot to post that I agree with you (think it was your post) that the solution to snowmobile parking is not using the public parking lot near the WSDOT shed.

Heck, I don't desire to be exposed to the smoke and noise from snowmobiles and I'm a snowmobile which I use like a car to get to the mountain trail heads. The local cross-country skiers and those that come here for recreation should not have to be exposed to that pollution.

I believe the original plan was to locate the snow park further up the road to the West near the Okanagan National Forest sign. It's clear the snow park was located at Silver Star to benefit commercial interests.

Glad the WSDOT Closed the snow park road in order to focus on the safety of the General Public and not kowtow to commercial interests.

But I digress.

I have another email out to Jeff and Maria and I'm hoping they will respond.

"Hi Jeff and Maria,

Since my rational brain kicked in I remember Maria saying in our phone call that my posts were not furthering the discussion. I guess that's what was related to her from other people who were complaining about my writing.

However it just occurred to me that since you folks don't read your own bulletin board how would you know weather ( what ) my post actually do for the discussion?

I'm just curious if you read any of my stuff before you made the decision to ban me from your site.

Obviously the situation is concerning to me because I do have a lot of time invested in the BB and interacting with the people on that site.

I also find it interesting that many of my threads accumulate a lot of responses and a lot of views.

Two examples would be my snow park thread (3200) and safety protocols on the ski trails thread.

Thanks,
Chris Hopkins"

(Corrected )

Thanks to Ray, you can't stop the wave.
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Re: Kicked Off the BB

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Chris,

I am sorry this happened to you.

While I disagreed with many of your posts, I listened to what you had to say and appreciated that your words were from your heart and were made in good faith. So thanks.
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Kicked Off the Methownet BB

Post by Fun CH »

My voice was stopped at the BB. I called Maria to discuss this issue and some of that discussion is contained within this email I sent to her.

"Dear Jeff and Maria Hardy,

From speaking with Maria today my understanding is that my account was banned on the bulletin board because people were complaining about what I had to say.

It's interesting that none of my posts were removed prior to this Banning, or warning notice given.

Maria mentioned that it was her understanding that Jeff had talked to me about this issue. However when I spoke to you Jeff, you were mainly concerned about political posts and made it sound like you were seeking my advice on how to deal with the issue. You further stated that (you) actually agreed with what I had to say concerning my political position

My advice was to not allow political discussions and later a thread started by Jeff detailed how political discussions were no longer allowed.

However the political discussions kept happening. And I kept commenting a few of them.

Maria informed me that you do not monitor the site unless a post is reported, and that the only way to control the site would be to end all discussion.

IMO, it does not seem like you are being responsible to the community by not moderating your own site. Maria even mentioned that lack of moderation sounded kind of "wonky".

I suggested that it might be a good idea to end discussions. Perhaps you should consider just being a want ad and sell site, community events calendar, and current events such as emergencies, fire, etc.

From reading your site I'm not sure you understand what harm your BB actually does to the community. You have a lot of people using the site to complain about their neighbors or groups such as Bruce's rant against Mtn Bike riders.

I have spoken out against that as well as how our North Cascade mountains are being commercialized and most recently against Reviving the recreational District idea, so it's no wonder that I've riled a few feathers. My voice apparently stands in the way of people making some cash off public resources.

But who knows I don't have the Inside Story on what people complained about exactly or who was doing the complaining.

Also, a lot of misinformation is passed along on your site such as Alf telling people it's not safe to go to the hospital right now which is contrary to medical expert advice. That issue spurred on a lengthy back and forth with Alf with a lot of miscommunication.

We know that miscommunication and misunderstanding is one of the faults of internet forum discussion.

I totally get that removing me from your sight may be a business decision on your part as Maria suggested that you were pulling your hair out trying to figure out what to do with my account.

I would have first suggested an honest discussion with me personally. That would have been the respectful thing to do.

However, I have no longer have control over my posts and therefore I do not wish them to continue to be published on your site.

To that aim I request that you remove all of my posts within 10 days.

Thank you,
Chris Hopkins"
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
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