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Re: USDA cuts to FS Wildfire
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 9:15 am
by mister_coffee
I'm also concerned because there are likely to be more visitors here this summer than in years past. If only because we are locally intervening to keep trails and campgrounds open and other areas may not (or may not be able) to do so. So more visitors means more idiots cooking hot dogs on hot windy days during a total fire ban. In addition to our local dingbats who use a propane torch to melt plastic irrigation pipe on a hot windy day.
We should also start early and get both DNR and the county to both have a total outdoor fire ban by Memorial Day weekend. And keep it until November.
I've heard rumors that DNR is going to at least partially pick up the slack. Every little bit will help. The question is if it will help enough.
Re: USDA cuts to FS Wildfire
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 8:29 am
by Rideback
AI: "While it's too early to definitively say, current predictions suggest that 2025 is likely to be one of the three warmest years on record, potentially rivaling 2024, which is expected to be the warmest year on record.'
The fires this summer will burn hotter than in 2014. We won't have the infrastructure of 2024. Without air support and ground crews that were available to the valley each summer we're facing disaster. Last summer the valley had plenty of fire starts. The quick reaction of our local stations and DNR made a huge difference in stopping them before they spread. Spotter planes and helos were out routinely to give everyone a heads up. Locals knew to stay out of their way.
Still, this year more than ever before the recognition that too many of the fires we suffer through are generated by humans. That's something we can all work at correcting. Whether it's carrying a shovel and a fire extinguisher in your car, keeping your head on swivel looking for telltale smoke, driving over to your neighbor and telling them no you can't burn when the County is under a burn ban and helping them put the fire out. Until people stop starting fires the dangers will just keep getting worse.
Re: USDA cuts to FS Wildfire
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 6:54 am
by PAL
Right, the people in the "background" may not be there. The people that help with food, dispatch, and how about those directing the planes and helicopters for drops? Are those positions reduced?
We had no crazy fires last year, but we know it will happen again. I still see the towns as vulnerable and I still see no limbing, brushing, etc.
Out here, Twisp River, we have done everything we can think of to make our place safe. But the "ravine from hell" as they called it in 2015 has grown back, beautifully. It could almost use another burn-controlled. At least trees are limbed and were before the fire. Bitterbrush has not grown back much, which is gasoline on the ground.
Not only will we try to help with campgrounds and trailheads, but we absolutely will have to work together on all of this. As was demostrated in the 2014, 2015 fires especially. We dropped everything and worked together to keep the Valley functioning. We learned from those fires so were better prepared for 2018 and 2021. Still...one like 2014 would be rough.
Re: USDA cuts to FS Wildfire
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2025 8:49 pm
by just-jim
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I don’t think most people really understand - yet - what the recent cuts to federal employees mean, as far as response to wildfire.
It’s not just the general downturn in the sheer number of bodies…it’s how those ‘bodies’ are used in firefighting.
Prior to - I’m guessing a little here - 2014 - here is what might have happened when in a response to a large wildland fire, one that had gown beyond ‘initial attack’, happened somewhere in NC Washington:
- As a fire escalated in size and more resources/home/people were at risk, additional fire fighting resources were dispatched. These were typically full time (not full year - but seasonally, full time)…be they Engines, organized ‘crews’, like ‘brush crews’. Or, even helicopter crews if a heli was stationed, locally. They joined similar, ‘full-time’ crews from other parts of this Forest, nearby Forests and the WA-DNR.
- IF further people were needed, 20 person crews were ordered and dispatched. Locally - up until 15 or so years ago - that meant that timber marking crews, engineering survey crews, trail crews and EVEN the odd seasonal wildlife biologist, range aide, road maintenance person….or even a clerk out of the office was recruited and formed into a 20 person hand-crew (a ‘hand crew’ is a standard 20 folks).
I recall, long ago, that BOTH the Twisp and WInthrop FS Districts could each field a 20 person crew, as needed. A THIRD 20-person crew might even be dispatched. AN additional 20 person crew might come from Tonasket.
In addition, many other folks - myself included - who had some more advanced fire qualifications would be dispatched as operations leaders and bosses or fill support positions in aviation, logistics, planning, dispatch, etc.
Most of those folks - the NON-FIRE funded ones - are now GONE! In talking, recently, to a current FS person, here’s what’s going on:
- staffing at the Methow Valley RD for THIS summer is 10 fire positions and 16 non-fire folks, (plus some unknown - to me - number of summer/seasonal fire positions). That is easily a 75+% reduction from 20 years ago.
- they are being told to prepare for another 40% reduction. BUT WAIT - that reduction MUST come from the non-fire side of things. So - here is the math: 26 positions x 40% = 10 positions. 16 current non-fire positions MINUS 10 is 6 people.
That SIX people who will be expected to staff an office and greet visitors and answer the phones….and do EVERYTHING else!
Oh, gosh, did you expect trails to be maintained? OR, toilets cleaned? OR anyone checking to make sure grazing permittees or Outfitters were following the terms of their permits? OR work with Methow Trails, Loup Loup, Trails Collaborative and Clubs and Volunteers? OR, do inventories of fish/wildlife/plant species?….across a land base of a Million and 1/2 acres???? HA HA ha ha - you MUST be joking!
And oh, yeah, those 6 must drop everything they are doing and go assist in a wildfire incident that is rapidly expanding.
This isnt unique to just the Methow. This will play out IN EVERY Federal agency that has a role in Wildland fire, NATIONALLY, not just the FS here….so it will be true of ALL the Federal agencies that contribute to wildland fire response; NPS, BLM, USFWS, BIA, NWS-NOAA and others.
Expect MANY and FREQUENT large conflagrations this summer…..!
Good luck! We are going to need it….
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USDA cuts to FS Wildfire
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2025 6:42 pm
by Rideback
The full article is behind a paywall at Politico Pro.
https://bsky.app/profile/bennet.senate. ... wvxvm6jc26