Guilty donnie loses 3 times today!

[Rideback]

First moves filed to begin process of going after Trump properties to satisfy judgments.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/21/politics ... 1042690629

[pasayten]

[Rideback]

Fact check your opinions Ken. Clinton Foundation has highest rating a foundation can get. Of course Trump's foundation was closed down because of illegal practices and he and children not allowed to serve on a foundation board thereafter.

You can whataboutisms all you want and repeat the lies you hear from the liars at Fox, Breitbart and NewsMax but that doesn't change the fact that Trump has repeatedly been found guilty of more crimes than any other president in our history.

And no, Ken, AOC was correct RICO is not a crime, it is an enhancement of crimes and the witness couldn't list the specific crimes. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/rackete ... enterprise.

[dorankj]

You guys are some of the most ignorant (root word IGNORE) naive cognitively disconnected ‘smart people’ ever! Bill Clinton, blue dress and what the “definition of ‘is’ is”, rape accusations/payoffs, business fraud, Clinton foundation on and on. Joe’s total family corruption selling access and influence (I’m sure you know about yesterdays testimony, yes AOC, RICO IS a crime!) his own rape accusations (and they actually know the dates) his long standing racism, decades long documents retention with zero rights (senators and VP CANNOT declassify or retain) etc, etc. You knuckleheads have zero moral standing on fairness and consistency or rule of law! You constantly say I only have ‘whataboutisms’ and then you post that Trump can’t speak or walk thereby saying ‘what about Trump’. Your hypocrisy and double standards are off the charts and I will take no lectures from you fruitloops who display zero fairness, consistency or context.

[Rideback]

Ken, bank fraud cases are charged in all states where they are relevant and the $ amount on this judgment is record breaking simply because the fraud that Trump perpetrated upon the people of NY was historically huge. Follow the crimes. We've never had an ex president by charged with 91 counts before or who stole classified docs and then obstructed (to this day) their return to the govt entities where they belong, we've never had an ex president charged and found guilty of sexual assault before, we've never had an ex president cover up an extra marital affair with a porn star and pay off a 2nd woman via a media cutout to keep them quiet before a presidential election, we've never had a president participate in a scheme with his lawyer to pusue fabricated disinformation generated by the Russians (see Parnas testimony), we've never had a president who wrote love letters to the NKorean dictator...when it comes to Trump the phrase 'we've never had...' is what generates the charges that multiple prosecutors, multiple civil suit litigators etc have leveled again and again. The $ amts are the least of our worries.

[just-jim]

.
- Cheating on a school exam is OK, if no one catches you,
- Lying in Court to a Judge, if you don’t get caught and no one else is hurt, is OK,
- Cheating on your taxes is OK…it’s just the Government, screw them!
- Lying on an application for a job is fine; who’s being harmed?
- Thumping on your wife is OK, as long as the bruises don’t show and she keeps quiet,

Nice bunch of moral lessons we’ve all learned from POTUS 45. Yep, dandy standards to live by! AND, they are especially good lessons to be passing down to our children, right?

“If people were reversed”, Ken, I would absolutely demand the same treatment. But, that isn’t the case. STOP with your constant, whining, ‘whataboutism’ and feeble attempts to continually equate Biden with pee pants! They are not the same.
.

[dorankj]

Not even close! This statute has never been used this way, the fine imposed has never been this big and never calculated in such a fabricated fashion. This is lawfare to try and get the leading opponent of the dems, if the people were reversed you would be screaming election interference!

[mister_coffee]

Doesn't matter one bit. Bank fraud is still bank fraud. You're basically arguing that if you drove home after slamming a bottle of Jack Daniels but didn't hurt anyone that it is okay. Or if I "borrowed" your car one night but returned it the next morning with a full tank of gas and a twenty on the dashboard it wouldn't be auto theft.

[dorankj]

Except the bank testified that the rates were not artificially low, they didn’t rely on Trump’s valuations (they all due their own due diligence) and they would do more loans if he wanted (they considered him a ‘whale’ and easy money) Nobody in New York was denied a loan, charged more or lost money because these loans happened and were fulfilled, why do they deserve ‘restitution’ of $450+ million?

[mister_coffee]

Not true, but explain how New York citizens were wronged by a bank loaning money to a developer who paid the money back with interest in full. Doesn’t this just enbolden government to go after people they don’t like? No citizens complained to their representatives in gov that they were harmed or lost money. There is literally a case where an investor is suing because he was lied to about the valuation of a property (and therefore they can’t pay back) and the AGs office is arguing that lying about valuations is normal and not illegal.

Bank Fraud is a crime, and governments aren't supposed to like people who commit crimes. The penalties on the books include restitution, fines up to $1MM, and thirty years in prison. The civil judgement is for the restitution part.

If you borrow billions of dollars on false valuations that can cause measurable losses to a bank's valuation and profits. That can also require the bank to have higher reserves which means it has less capital to lend to others. That can hurt the people of New York because the bank's Mr. Trump did business with were based in New York and the result would be fewer taxes paid to the state by the banks.

Risk managers put precise dollar values on crap like this all the time. It is their job. And it is easy for billions of dollars in loans over many years to add up to hundreds of millions of dollars in damages.

Also note nobody would hold a bank on the hook if it were poorly managed, but because a customer gave it false information and the bank made loans to that customer based on that false information that customer can be on the hook for the losses.

Honestly I think a fair trade would be to call off the hounds if Trump surrenders for a thirty year prison term. The real estate company can survive but he can go to prison.

[Rideback]

Well, no Trump didn't pay back the loan with interest IN FULL, simply because he wasn't charged the interest that any other developer would have been charged when they filled out the loan applications with the truthful information on it.

[dorankj]

Not true, but explain how New York citizens were wronged by a bank loaning money to a developer who paid the money back with interest in full. Doesn’t this just enbolden government to go after people they don’t like? No citizens complained to their representatives in gov that they were harmed or lost money. There is literally a case where an investor is suing because he was lied to about the valuation of a property (and therefore they can’t pay back) and the AGs office is arguing that lying about valuations is normal and not illegal.

[Rideback]

No, Ken, we've played this one out before. The banks testified that they didn't do their due diligence and so their shareholders have a case against them and come to think of it other borrowers in NY would have standing to sue them since they prehaps missed out on getting a better interest rate.

The funds will go to the State of NY, per NY law. Nothing nefarious here.

Trump committed crimes. He was caught. The fines imposed by the court are not made up, they follow the sentencing laws, read the ruling.

[dorankj]

No, the banks testified in court that what you say is incorrect. The penalty too is a made up number! Where does the money go? The banks? The state coffers?

[mister_coffee]

Well, if someone doesn't want to understand something I guess they do not have to...

[Rideback]

Ken, the 'banks were paid in full' - you keep saying that despite the rule in a court of law, that Trump's lying to the banks (and let's face it, the taxing authorities as well), which is illegal, caused the banks to loan at a discounted rate which simply put means that the interest rates he should have paid were never received by the banks - that means he fraudulently received those loans with those interest rates. The difference between what he should have paid and what he did pay is the amount, plus damages that was awarded in the judgment. That's an oversimplification but you just don't seem to get it. What he paid is not what he owed, because he lied, by way of fabrication on his books and loan applications.

To a certain extent the banks didn't believe his fabrications whole cloth as they did discount his fabrications of his net worth. That's on them but it doesn't erase his fraudulent representations to them and ultimately to the taxing authorities in NY state as well.

[dorankj]

The bank was paid in full! You nutz are unhinged.

[mister_coffee]

...
Is if fraud if the loan is paid back with interest?
...

It is fraud if you knowingly give false information to a bank to get a loan. Doesn't matter if you pay it back or not. People get nailed for this all the time. Also, the penalty on the books is a function of the size of the loans and benefits you got from the fraudulent loans. Half a billion dollars is clearly not an excessive fine if you have a net worth of four billion dollars, as Trump claims.

Also, banks have shareholders. The value of their dividends and shares is largely a function of the loans the bank makes. If the bank's loan portfolio has riskier loans (because, I don't know, some of the loans are to a person notorious for filing for bankruptcy and suing his creditors) that will translate to a lower share price -- taking money out of the pockets of shareholders, basically ripping them off. If a bank makes a loan at a lower interest rate than they otherwise would have because someone gave the bank bad information, that means the bank could have lent to someone else at a higher interest rate, again ripping shareholders off.

And before you say, "I don't care because I don't own shares in banks." Well, maybe you do and maybe you don't. But if you have a pension it probably owns bank stocks, and a whole lot of folks with retirement funds of various types do. So from my point of view Trump ripped all of those people off.

[Jingles]

Let's think about this a little.
Accused and found guilty, in a kangaroo court, of fraud.

What fraud?
Does not the bank decide who gets the loan and how much they can get? Isn't it the banks responsibility to determine if the borrower is creditable and financially responsible enough to receive the loan and has the ability to pay back the loan?

Is if fraud if the loan is paid back with interest?

As far as the amount fined seems that is a violation of the VIII Amendment
" Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

454 million for a made up fraud charge, when you consider that the bank had the responsibility to investigate the application for the loan and make final determination whether to approve or not.

[just-jim]

.
Guilty Donnie is a THREE time Loser today!

- Loses appeal of the $450 M judgement.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... fraud-case

- Loses appeal to view sealed documents in Florida case
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... mar-a-lago

- Loses - barred from primary ballot in Illinois due to J6
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -january-6

THREE time loser!

Loser loser loser!

.