Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

Post by mister_coffee »

Oh, the irony...

Moms for Liberty chapter splits off over response to rape allegation against co-founder's husband

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... rcna128204#


...
“We have been truly shaken to read of the serious, criminal allegations against Christian Ziegler,” Justice and fellow co-founder Tina Descovich said in a statement Tuesday. “We believe any allegation of sexual assault should be taken seriously and fully investigated,” they said, adding that Bridget Ziegler left the group a month after its launch in January 2021. Regarding the Northumberland chapter, the co-founders said they “appreciate this chapter’s hard work and we hope they continue the fight for parental rights.”

According to a search warrant affidavit first obtained by the nonpartisan Florida Center for Government Accountability and shared with NBC News, a woman who had known the Zieglers for 20 years reported to police that Christian Ziegler sexually assaulted her at her apartment on Oct. 2. Christian Ziegler told investigators that he had consensual sex with the woman on Oct. 2, according to the affidavit, and Bridget Ziegler told detectives that she and her husband had a consensual three-way sexual encounter with the woman last year.

Sarasota police have not confirmed or denied the authenticity of the affidavit, which has been widely reported. A lawyer for Christian Ziegler has said he expects to be fully cleared of any criminal wrongdoing once the investigation concludes. Bridget Ziegler did not respond to requests for comment.

Paige said her reaction to Bridget Ziegler’s apparent admission was “Holy buckets, this is not OK.”

“We can’t fight against grooming of students or kids and then that’s happening,” she said.
...


Given Moms for Liberty's vehement positions on even allowing LGBTQ to exist this looks like a case of "do as I say, not as I do."
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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An in Florida...
The teenager loves sports and has played on girls’ teams since she was seven, according to the 2021 lawsuit filed by her family. She began taking testosterone blockers at 11, has received estrogen since 13 and will develop through puberty as a girl, meaning she has no competitive advantage over, and is similar athletically, to her cisgender female teammates, her family said in the lawsuit.
Dang... Those are big decisions for an 11 year old with permanent long term effects... As a parent, this is tough for me to understand and justify.

A trans girl played volleyball. Now her Florida school is under investigation.
Story by Justine McDaniel, Maham Javaid, Dan Rosenzweig-Ziff • Washington Post
16h

Six weeks after the Monarch High School girls’ volleyball season ended, the team’s coach got a phone call from the Broward County School District that baffled him: His team was under investigation, he said he was told, and he was no longer allowed on the grounds of the South Florida school.

Alex Burgess, who is in his second year of coaching, had no idea why the School District would be investigating his team. He didn’t know the investigation focused on one of his players. Nor did he have any idea that Florida had banned her from playing on the team.

After receiving the district’s call early this week, Burgess learned only from news reports that at issue was a 2021 state law — championed by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) and implemented by the Republican-controlled state legislature — barring transgender girls from being on girls’ school sports teams.
The state Department of Education had instructed the district to investigate Monarch High for allowing a trans girl to play on the volleyball team. It appears to be the first time the law has been used to remove educators from a school or investigate them for potential lawbreaking.

Students stage walkout at Florida high school after staff reassigned over transgender athlete
The investigation, which began Monday, has put educators at risk of disciplinary consequences, disrupted the high school just before midterms and prompted hundreds of its students to walk out this week in protest. It has also forced a minor into the public eye.

“I’m most worried about her and how she’s doing,” Burgess said Wednesday, saying he had not known the student was trans before the district’s investigation. “I can only imagine what she’s going through.”

On Monday, Burgess’s job as a coach was “paused” and the principal, assistant principal and two staff members were temporarily removed from the Coconut Creek, Fla., school for the duration of the investigation, which could take weeks or months.

The student’s family had already challenged the state law: They sued the Florida Department of Education over the trans athlete ban in 2021. In November, a federal judge dismissed the lawsuit, ruling that the law didn’t violate federal rights under the Constitution or Title IX. (The family has until Jan. 13 to submit an amended lawsuit.)

The Department of Education alerted the district to the girl’s membership on the team about two weeks after the lawsuit was dismissed. An agency spokesperson has said the department did so after being notified of the student’s participation in volleyball, but has not said who notified the state, when or how.

A straight-A student who was happy and thriving, the teenager now doesn’t want to return to school, said Jennifer Solomon, a South Florida resident and LGBTQ advocate who has known the family for more than a decade.

The student’s parents declined, through Solomon, to speak with The Washington Post; she said they are taking time to care for their daughter. The student has not been publicly identified by the district. The Post does not identify people under 18 without their parents’ permission.

“This child’s life has been turned upside down,” said Solomon, a families support manager for the LGBTQ group Equality Florida. “And she didn’t hurt or harm anyone.”

The DeSantis administration’s push for the investigation, and misgendering of the student in a statement, drew criticism from some in the Monarch High community, LGBTQ advocates and the Miami Herald editorial board, which wrote that the governor’s administration “clearly doesn’t deem all children worthy” of protection from harm.

In a statement to some news media outlets, Education Department spokeswoman Cailey Myers said, “Under Governor DeSantis, boys will never be allowed to play girls’ sports. It’s that simple.”

“As soon as the Department was notified that a biological male was playing on a girls’ team in Broward County, we instructed the district to take immediate action since this is a direct violation of Florida law,” Myers continued. “It is completely unacceptable for the male student to have been allowed to play on a girls’ team, and we expect there will be serious consequences for those responsible.”

The teenager loves sports and has played on girls’ teams since she was seven, according to the 2021 lawsuit filed by her family. She began taking testosterone blockers at 11, has received estrogen since 13 and will develop through puberty as a girl, meaning she has no competitive advantage over, and is similar athletically, to her cisgender female teammates, her family said in the lawsuit.

“It is not an option for her to be on the boys’ team,” they wrote then, “because she is not a boy.”

A climate of fear
The legislation at issue is part of the conservative remaking of Florida led by DeSantis, who is seeking the 2024 Republican nomination for president. Florida has led a wave of red states in passing legislation restricting the lives of LGBTQ people, including banning classroom instruction about sexuality and gender identity.

Nationwide, a wave of anti-trans state laws that began in 2018 has now seen hundreds of bills filed. By this spring, 2023 had set a record for the number of such bills being signed into law, an analysis by The Post found.

That has included legislation focusing on transgender athletes, particularly women: Since 2020, 23 states have passed laws barring transgender athletes from high school or college sports or both, according to the nonprofit Movement Advancement Project, which tracks the legislation.

The issue has become politicized despite transgender youth being a very small minority of the U.S. population — less than 2 percent of high school students, according to a 2019 CDC report — and the percentage of transgender girls likely to play sports and compete at an elite level is even more limited.

Signing Florida’s bill into law in June 2021, DeSantis and other state leaders portrayed it as protecting girls, alleging that trans people could otherwise erode women’s equality in athletics. The law, which legislators named the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act, was billed as a measure that would “preserve fair opportunities for female athletes.”

But advocates said the state’s aggressive legislative targeting of education and LGBTQ issues has created a climate of fear for both educators and trans people — one that some in Broward County said was exacerbated this week.

While the DeSantis administration argued that Monarch High had likely broken the law, critics said the issue was the law itself, which LGBTQ advocates view as unconstitutional.

“Just because a law is enacted doesn’t make it right or fair,” said Jon Harris Maurer, public policy director for Equality Florida.

‘Nobody is guilty of anything at this point’
Broward County Schools Superintendent Peter B. Licata told reporters Tuesday that the district would conduct an investigation to determine whether any of the staff members should face “discipline, as appropriate with anyone else that breaks the law.”

A School District investigative unit made up of former law enforcement officers will investigate the employees. Licata said their reassignments were “not an indication of discipline.”

“Nobody is guilty of anything at this point. That’s what the investigation is for,” he said.

Licata told reporters he was unaware of the family’s lawsuit against the state when he found out Nov. 20 about the student’s participation in volleyball. He didn’t specify whether he or the Department of Education initiated the conversation, though the state agency said it had told the district about the student.

Licata said he had spoken with a constituent Nov. 20 who reported “factors” that “were not appropriate” on the volleyball team and said the person who called in the tip was “choosing not to be identified.”

Licata, through a spokesperson, declined to be interviewed. The Department of Education did not respond to questions from The Post. A DeSantis spokesperson referred The Post to the Department of Education.

The heads of the district’s teachers union and principals association both said they thought the employees could have remained in their jobs during the investigation to minimize disruption to the students. Broward Teachers Union president Anna Fusco said workers are usually removed from their jobs when being investigated for allegations of harm against a student.

“None of the above harmed the child,” Fusco said. “They could’ve just told them that there’s an allegation, that you violated the law and we’re going to investigate. It didn’t have to be this hoopla, national attention.”

It was “rather apparent” that the district had felt pressure from the state to take action, said Lisa Maxwell, executive director of the Broward Principals’ and Assistant Principals’ Association.

“The state feels, obviously, very strongly about the situation,” Maxwell said. “So, in an abundance of caution … I’m presuming the district decided to help assure the state that this was an investigation being conducted in a very thorough way.”

Athletic director Dione Hester declined to comment. Principal James Cecil, assistant principal Kenneth May and Jessica Norton, who is a junior varsity volleyball coach and information management technician, did not respond to requests from The Post. All four have been given work at nonschool sites.

The association, to which Cecil and May belong, concluded in a review that neither administrator broke the law, Maxwell said. The group expects them to be cleared, she said.

Licata said his first priority was supporting students, but some school staff members questioned the district’s regard for the trans student’s well-being. Fusco accused the district of having “shown a lack of care” for the teenager.

Asked about concerns that the investigation may have outed the student to members of the campus community, Licata said he was “not aware of any of that.”

The fact that the student played on the team “only seems to be a problem because … a law exists that ostensibly seeks to discriminate against and ostracize trans people,” said John Seminario, an English teacher and former faculty sponsor of the school’s Gay-Straight Alliance.

“It doesn’t feel conducive to ‘providing all students with a safe and inclusive learning environment,’” he said, quoting a district statement about the reassignments.

A high school in turmoil
LGBTQ advocates already thought Florida’s law had prevented other trans kids from playing sports at school, largely by discouraging them from signing up. Now, its ripple effect is being felt across the state’s second-largest School District.

The removal of the administrators disrupted Monarch High, Maxwell said. She said the principal and assistant principal are worried about their students. The assistant principal, for instance, had been working with students who were in danger of not graduating.

“He felt he was making great strides,” Maxwell said. “Him not being there, doing that work … That has an impact.”

Students staged two walkouts this week to protest the law’s enforcement. They demonstrated support for the administrators and student, carrying signs with slogans such as “Trans rights are human rights.”

Jordan Campbell, the captain of the girls’ volleyball team, told NBC6 Miami that her teammate was “not being treated like a human.” She said she was worried about her, saying she hasn’t come to school since the investigation began.

“She’s not being treated like she’s worth anything to anyone,” Campbell told the TV station. “It is truly disgusting. She’s a human and she deserves to be treated like one.”

In the 2021 lawsuit, the student’s family laid out what they feared would happen if the state law were enforced at the girl’s school. Losing sports, they said, would “create a sense of shame and diminish her positive sense of self,” have a possible long-term effect on her future and take away a source of pride, belonging and social connection.

“She cannot imagine life without these experiences,” the family wrote, “and feels it would be cruel to take this opportunity away from her.”
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/ha ... om-policy/
Hartland school district to draft gender-affirming bathroom policy

HARTLAND, Mich. (CBS DETROIT) - Concerned parents and students took to a Hartland schools board meeting Monday to voice their bathroom safety concerns.

Parents say their students feel unsafe when students who are transitioning genders use restrooms of the gender they now identify as.

"Not only can non-transgender students be hurt by this, but also transgender students themselves," said freshman Anne Marie Yarber at Monday's school board meeting.

Anne Marie Yarber told the school board it's a problem that desperately needs a solution.

"I don't want her to feel unsafe. I want her to feel very safe in her school because she spends a good portion of her life there," said Anna Marie's father, Alex Yarber.


At Monday's school board meeting, several parents raised their concerns to the school board.

CBS News Detroit reached out to the National Center for Transgender Equality and received the following statement:

"Safety and privacy are important to all of us, including transgender youth, who use the bathroom for the same reason as every other student, to take care of their body's needs. Banning transgender people from freely and safely accessing public places, like bathrooms and changing rooms, can send the message that transgender people don't belong in our society.

Transgender students simply want to live freely and authentically as themselves, just like every other student. The real challenges facing our children in schools are insufficient funding, lack of resources for educators, food insecurity, and the ongoing epidemic of gun violence and school shootings.

Everybody should be able to safely access public places without fear of persecution or harassment.

It's reassuring to know that 19 states and over 200 towns have updated these protections with no increase in public safety concerns. Preventing transgender students from using the bathrooms or changing rooms corresponding to the gender they live as every day runs counter to the fundamental democratic values that our society is founded upon."

"We're hoping to make sure that that policy is fair and just for all students," says Glenn Gogoleski, a Hartland schools board trustee.

Gogoleski says he and the board are working on a policy that makes all students feel safe.


"What we'll do is we'll try to instill a policy to where we have facilities for both, and hopefully, we'll take care of it that way.

Gogoleski says the board is drafting a solution to be ready for a vote as soon as December's board meeting.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/fede ... hlete-law/
Federal judge rejects challenge to Florida trans athlete law

TALLAHASSEE -- A federal judge has rejected a challenge to a 2021 Florida law banning transgender female students from playing on women's and girls' sports teams.

U.S. District Judge Roy Altman on Monday issued a 39-page decision granting a request by attorneys for Florida Education Commissioner Manny Diaz Jr. and the State Board of Education to dismiss a lawsuit filed on behalf of a transgender high school volleyball player.

Altman ruled that the controversial law did not violate constitutional equal protection and due-process rights and Title IX, a federal law that prevents discrimination based on sex in education programs. He left open the possibility that attorneys for the Broward County student, identified by the initials D.N., could file a revised lawsuit on the protection and Title IX issues.

Attorneys for the state argued that the law was aimed at helping ensure athletic opportunities for girls and women who want to play interscholastic or college sports. They contended the opportunities could be threatened by the participation of transgender females, who were identified as biological males at birth.

Altman said he found that "promoting women's equality in athletics is an important governmental interest" and disputed that the law (SB 1028) discriminated based on stereotypes.

"In our case, SB 1028's gender-based classifications are rooted in real differences between the sexes - not stereotypes. In requiring schools to designate sports-team memberships on the basis of biological sex, the statute adopts the uncontroversial proposition that most men and women do have different (and innate) physical attributes. Ignoring those real differences would disserve the purpose of the Equal Protection Clause, which is to safeguard the principle that 'all persons similarly situated should be treated alike,'" he wrote, partially quoting legal precedents.

Altman also wrote that the law does not come "anywhere close to creating the sort of caste-like system the Constitution forbids - a system in which transgender girls are legally demeaned and degraded because of their gender identity."

"Most importantly, like laws prohibiting the blind from flying airplanes or the HIV-infected from donating blood, SB 1028 is tailored to an important and well-established governmental interest - the promotion of gender equality through the preservation of athletic opportunities for girls," the decision said. "In this respect, it's not at all like the kinds of laws the Equal Protection Clause unambiguously disallows - laws that, for instance, prohibited black Americans from eating at the same restaurants, drinking from the same water fountains, attending the same schools, and swimming in the same beaches as white Americans. Those laws - untethered from any legitimate governmental interest - degraded blacks (because of their race) across broad swathes of American social life."

Attorneys for the transgender girl filed the lawsuit in June 2021, after the Republican-controlled Legislature and Gov. Ron DeSantis approved the ban. The case was put on hold while the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals considered a separate case that challenged a St. Johns County School Board policy preventing a transgender male student, Drew Adams, from using boys' bathrooms.

The Atlanta-based appeals court in December upheld the St. Johns County policy, spurring Altman in January to reopen the transgender-athlete case.

In a March filing, attorneys for the Broward County volleyball player described the law as part of a "larger national effort to scapegoat this protected group."

"The statute must be viewed against the backdrop of the avalanche of antitransgender, and anti-LGBTQ legislation across the country and also in the context of ever-increasing legislative hostility in Florida towards LGBTQ individuals," the attorneys argued.

But in its motion to dismiss the case, filed in February, the state disputed that the law was intended to discriminate or that it violates constitutional rights.

"SB 1028 indeed draws a sex-based classification, but the classification is constitutionally permissible because the state has important governmental interests in separating athletic teams on the basis of sex, and in prohibiting biological males from joining teams designated for biological females: protecting biological females' equal participation in school athletics and remediating past under-representation of females in athletic competition," the motion said. "Because the challenged law is substantially related to achieving these important aims, it does not violate equal protection."
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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You do that every time you look in a mirror. No wonder you’re a confused angry old coot!
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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.
Oh Good! Now I won’t have to imagine that I’m talking to a spoiled, petulant - and not especially bright - 13 year old.

Buh-bye!
.
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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What in the he// are you even talking about Jim, I think it’s time for you to f-off again. Let’s keep it permanent this time.
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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dorankj wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:27 pm There is no respect for truth! Everything is subject to ridiculous interpretation and hypocrisy. The victims are persecuted and the offenders are honored.
I guess by that twisted logic……if a non-religious person is subjected to Jews or Muslims or Catholics exercising their right to practice their religion, then; they are offenders, and the bystander is a victim?

Thanks for clearing THAT up!

You do realize being gay or trans is not against the law and is a basic human right?
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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Jingles wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:03 pm ... Hey looser not everyone makes the team or gets a participation trophy
Your argument would be slightly more impressive if you could spell "loser" properly. Obviously you didn't win a spelling bee when in school.

I just think this issue isn't as simple or cut and dried in practice as people would like to make it.

And the people making political hay out of demonizing trans people might have a plan or two for you as well. Plans you probably wouldn't like.
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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Ray you are not alone in stating biological males compete in male sports only and biolgic females in female sports only. Seems those males that can't cut it / make the team with other males say they identify as female so they can make the team. Can solve it Biologic Male / Biologic Female and Undecided
Hey looser not everyone makes the team or gets a participation trophy
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pasayten wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:30 pm For me it is not for political purposes... I just firmly believe that cis females should have their right not to be encroached by the male species (with penis) in designated womens bathrooms and locker rooms. They deserve this right and respect.

I am also not in favor of biological males competing in biological female sports unless it is mutually agreed upon. Once again, respect is a central issue.
You're not wrong.

I just see that a lot of the folks pushing this issue have a pretty dark agenda they are pushing along with it. You can't deny that it is easy to stigmatize trans people and that authoritarians find it useful to have a vulnerable minority to stigmatize.

It is hard to understand or sympathize with trans people. But I imagine that they have to be pretty damned tortured inside and basically have chosen a path in life that is going to involve a lot of suffering. When you think of it that way you can have at least some sympathy for them.

Here in the valley though. Best estimates are that 1% to 1.5% of high skool age students identify as trans. So if you're generous that probably means there are about six trans kids at LBHS. Not all of them will want to participate in sports and not all of them will be inappropriately equipped to use the ladies room. So I think we are borrowing trouble here. And with those very small absolute numbers the wise approach that non-hysterical adults would choose would be to have very broad guidelines and give administrators and staff the discretion to handle things on a case by case basis. But always emphasize transparency in the decision making process, with appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of all parties involved.

I'd also ask, "which sport?" because I suspect that the Right Answer might be different for gymnastics or golf or tennis versus track and field, soccer, or basketball. And you'd have weird borderline cases like cross country as well. In general I'd say that for non-contact sports and endurance sports it is a lot fuzzier.
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There is no respect for truth! Everything is subject to ridiculous interpretation and hypocrisy. The victims are persecuted and the offenders are honored.
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mister_coffee wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:29 pm People are different. Sometimes those differences will make you seriously uncomfortable. It is easy to offer compassion to people you can identify with, much easier than from people who make you feel weird and that you might consider icky.

It is pretty obvious to me that trans people are being singled out for political purposes. It is easy to point at people who are very different, are hard to identify with or understand, and often can make others uncomfortable and make them into some kind of threat.
For me it is not for political purposes... I just firmly believe that cis females should have their right not to be encroached by the male species (with penis) in designated womens bathrooms and locker rooms. They deserve this right and respect.

I am also not in favor of biological males competing in biological female sports unless it is mutually agreed upon. Once again, respect is a central issue.
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People are different. Sometimes those differences will make you seriously uncomfortable. It is easy to offer compassion to people you can identify with, much easier than from people who make you feel weird and that you might consider icky.

It is pretty obvious to me that trans people are being singled out for political purposes. It is easy to point at people who are very different, are hard to identify with or understand, and often can make others uncomfortable and make them into some kind of threat.
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pasayten wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:24 pm Chris, I tire of your reasoning and arguments... I stated my opinions/beliefs and that's just the way it is for me... and my daughters... and my granddaughters...

Who mentioned anything about a political party??? Good grief...
I mentioned your political party and it's current targeted attack on the LGBTQ+ Community which is fully aligned with your opinions.

Too bad your tired of my reasoning, yours is causing harm. And yes I know you can't see that.


POSTED ININEQUALITY
‘Young people are being harmed’: the effect of anti-trans legislation
Research shows transgender youths are facing more harassment because of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation.

https://publicintegrity.org/inequality- ... gislation/
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Chris, I tire of your reasoning and arguments... I stated my opinions/beliefs and that's just the way it is for me... and my daughters... and my granddaughters...

Who mentioned anything about a political party??? Good grief...
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pasayten wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:12 am Not "targeting" anyone... Just stating social guidelines of no penises in womens restrooms and locker rooms. The cis women also have their long standing rights to consider. They seem to have been forgotten in this process. If trans have not followed thru with gender altering surgery, society should make alternate restrooms and locker rooms available to suit their new found identity status, interim or permanent.

BTW, you certainly seem to judge a lot... One of the most judgmental persons I know... Just go back and read some of your posts on this BB on the FOTP, parking areas, helicopter ski owners, etc...
wait, so you justify discrimination against transgender humans, which is the trend now in your political party, by saying I'm "One of the most judgmental persons" you know. Well yes, I'm a public land watch dog, it's what we do. We try to implement public land policy change and report violations by special use permit holders. That process all starts by making a judgement based on fact, sometimes involving ending discriminatory policies like the one you are currently avocating.

Besides your no penis policy, you stated something about womens sports being wrongly affected. So it's more than you just wanting penis checks at every restroom.

Quote: "If trans have not followed thru with gender altering surgery, society should make alternate restrooms and locker rooms available to suit their new found identity status, interim or permanent." End quote

Watch out Ray, your prejudice is showing. You think gender is a choice instead of excepting it's who we are.

What are you afraid of exactly?
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Not "targeting" anyone... Just stating social guidelines of no penises in womens restrooms and locker rooms. The cis women also have their long standing rights to consider. They seem to have been forgotten in this process. If trans have not followed thru with gender altering surgery, society should make alternate restrooms and locker rooms available to suit their new found identity status, interim or permanent.

BTW, you certainly seem to judge a lot... One of the most judgmental persons I know... Just go back and read some of your posts on this BB on the FOTP, parking areas, helicopter ski owners, etc...
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pasayten wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:45 pm And you are not in a position to judge or measure the love in anybody else but yourself.

You mean like the way your judging transgender humans?

Actions speak louder than words.

Although I found it interesting that you judged the Episcopal Christian bible teachings of love and inclusion and wrote it off as a "word salad".

What would Jesus do? I don't think he would target transgenders.

Are we allowed to judge the Nazis according to your standards or did their actions prove it wasn't love that drove their discriminatory policies?

"Hitler’s Nazi government, however, brutally targeted the trans community, deporting many trans people to concentration camps and wiping out vibrant community structures. As transgender people are now increasingly targets of discriminatory legislation and hate...,"

https://mjhnyc.org/blog/transgender-exp ... i-germany/
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Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

Post by pasayten »

Again, we should keep in mind that this is a pretty rare problem. Do we have any trans students in the district today? How many? And how many of them would run afoul of any of the issues that concern you?
My daughters are grown and can decide boundaries/guidelines for themselves. I would be interested and supportive in the feelings of the female students currently attending school.
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

Post by mister_coffee »

pasayten wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:08 pm So how is transitioning measured? Do we need to come up with transitioning standards and criteria for bathrooms?
Probably, yes.

Again, we should keep in mind that this is a pretty rare problem. Do we have any trans students in the district today? How many? And how many of them would run afoul of any of the issues that concern you?

If the answer is zero than we are borrowing problems. And we've got plenty of real problems to work on.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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And you are not in a position to judge or measure the love in anybody else but yourself.
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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pasayten wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:08 pm
mister_coffee wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:53 pm Note that women are at far greater risk of being raped, assaulted, or murdered by heterosexual men than by partially transitioned trans females. And hetero men aren't normally allowed in women's bathrooms.
So how is transitioning measured? Do we need to come up with transitioning standards and criteria for bathrooms?
No, we just need to not give into fear mongering with, as you say, "word salad" reasoning.

Seek out bathrooms with Locks if you live in fear.

Who cares who wins a Jr. High or high school or game? Most of the school coaches I knew inflicted damage with their ego driven win at all costs attitude. And I'm talking both mental and life altering physical
damage.

It's not love if your attitude does damage to the people you target.
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

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mister_coffee wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:53 pm Note that women are at far greater risk of being raped, assaulted, or murdered by heterosexual men than by partially transitioned trans females. And hetero men aren't normally allowed in women's bathrooms.
So how is transitioning measured? Do we need to come up with transitioning standards and criteria for bathrooms?
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Re: Meet the 13-year-old West Virginian suing to join her school's track team

Post by mister_coffee »

One of the things I intensely dislike about the whole trans athlete thing is that we are discussing an extreme outlier situation. The issues to be concerned with are vanishingly rare in Real Life. That doesn't mean that they don't need to be dealt with. It just means (to me) that handling it intelligently on a case by case basis rather than with blanket rules is probably wise.

Note that women are at far greater risk of being raped, assaulted, or murdered by heterosexual men than by partially transitioned trans females. And hetero men aren't normally allowed in women's bathrooms.

The whole trans athlete thing is a pretty clear example of Moral Panic.
Last edited by mister_coffee on Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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